OUR PORN IS AT STAKE!!!!
#16
If they stop porn I'll just go to Canberra and get it! Same place I can get fireworks and all other stuff considered as contraband in other states and territories. I really don't know what the fuss is all about. I was looking at and reading and watching porn long before the internet was invented. I think more to the point that it is the "convienence" of subject matter that is at stake here, not the fact that self rightuos hypocritical publicly elected so-called do-gooders thinking they no what is right or wrong for the people. But then again thats the beauty about us humans, we always find the way to go around when we have to!!!!
Woman,where's my wallet?
And whats for tea?
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#17
Ok firstly the whole porn thing was a bit of a hype up and was intended to be a little humour in what is a draconian law. like i said the real issue is that the government have a belief that they have the right to limit our rights to access a free and open internet. whether the filters are easy to get past is irrelavant, what concerns me is the governments attitude. it start with the internet then all of a sudden no sports bikes can be ridden because there to fast and therefore not good for us. its actually scary to think the government believes they can restrict our rights on the premace of protecting us
Regards

Dan
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#18
Governments are elected to govern and run the country.

They are not elected to run our lives. Which seems more and more what they are trying to do.

Ministers and their advisors pushing their own beliefs and agendas on the population.

IF THEY STOPPED TRYING TO RUN (RUIN) PEOPLES LIVES AND GOT ON WITH THE IMPORTANT SHIT OF RUNNING THE COUNTRY....???


I'm sorry, I forgot that my taxes pay public servants to know what's better for me. Knuppel2 I best be off now to vote in the ACT election.

I'm going to vote for some one who'll make all my decisions for me. Then I can get on with the impotant things.

Shall I walk or ride the pushbike down to get my fat free lentil burger made by the god fearing couple at the local health food store.

Later everyone, I'm off to work. to strap on my gun and oc Scary
Regards,

Busdriver (aka Les)
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#19
[quote=Busdriver]
Governments are elected to govern and run the country.

They are not elected to run our lives. Which seems more and more what they are trying to do.

Don't vote then Busdriver,cop the fine you'll receive which will go to the government that you did not vote for. Whether anyone likes it or not, governments determine how everybody on this planet run their lives. Whether the right or wrong party are in power each and everyone of us have to live by what at the end of the day is determined. Thats why I vote, at least I have a say in the way I choose whether to look at porn legally or illegally!!!!
Woman,where's my wallet?
And whats for tea?
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#20
Gassick Wrote:Thats why I vote, at least I have a say in the way I choose whether to look at porn legally or illegally!!!!

The current opposition had a similar project on the table back when they were in power. In fact they were the ones that brought about the ACMA black list (which has pretty much failed horribly). You are damned if you did, and damned if you didn't.

Conroy has already fluffed the National Broadband Network and it's being quietly swept under the carpet. If we poke enough holes through Conroy's stupid filtering proposal (which absolutely no sane and capable IT professional could possibly recommend), I'd almost be willing to bet this would be swept under the carpet too. Conroy is good at that.
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#21
evilRasp Wrote:Basically, it can't be done with current technology. And there are so many ways around these filters that the only way they're going to stop Herman Kidletfiddler accessing <buzzword>Child Porn!</buzzword> over the net is to turn off the net entirely. In my job, I've made a game of busting open content filters installed in educational facilities and demonstrating they really only stop the honest.

Hey Evil, A question you may be able to answer. The above bit of your post prompted me on it. I may be way of the basis here. If so just say so......

You're saying the current technology isn't up to the task. My query;
When I first moved to China, (2002) Google was not accessible because some Gov dude decided he didn't like it & so it was totally filtered out. Then one day it re-appeared.

Nobody in China (at least anyone I knew) could access any web site which had comments about Taiwan, Democracy, Religion etc. (Porn was easily accessible). BBC web site was totally blocked.

The word on the street was that the Gov were trying to discourage personal / home internet access & wanting the public to use internet cafe's etc. Supposedly because the cafe's were easier to filter / control.
The university I worked at (and lived on campus) totally blocked ALL international internet to all students. Although I did have full internet access in my appartment. (excluding the topics noted above) Again, Porn was no problem :)
I believe this was the same for ALL schools. (not the porn bit)


As a general rule, The Chinese Gov totally blocks approx 20% to 30% of all international internet coming into China.

So my question is, if the current technology is not suitable, how are they doing it???
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#22
Louwai Wrote:Hey Evil, A question you may be able to answer. The above bit of your post prompted me on it. I may be way of the basis here. If so just say so......

No problem, I made the claim, I better be able to back it up Lol3

Louwai Wrote:As a general rule, The Chinese Gov totally blocks approx 20% to 30% of all international internet coming into China.

So my question is, if the current technology is not suitable, how are they doing it???

How I wish they'd block one of the websites I'm responsible for. Maybe I should post some Falun Gong propaganda. A lot of Chinese use a program called Xunlei, and it hurts my poor servers Pi_freak

In short, they're not. At least not to those with the knowledge. Let me explain...

I don't know your level of IT expertise, so I'll try and write it for the layman who knows nothing (so others can follow along). I didn't say that parts of the web can't be blocked. In fact, that's incredibly trivial.

What I did (at least try to) say was that in the process of blocking off parts of the net, there's a lot of collateral damage and yet there's always a way around it.

One single Internet address (IP address) can potentially host thousands of websites, some pro, some anti the same topic. It's easy enough to block "www.something-they-dont-like.com" at a firewall. It's also easy to defeat that block by changing my domain name to something else. So then the blockers will do something like block the IP address of the server, or even the entire network that the server is hosted on. Problem being that potentially "www.something-they-really-like.com" has been taken off the air.

So we accept some collateral damage. Not that bad, so long as the contentious material is gone...

Instead, the person that hosts www.something-they-dont-like.com changes to use SSL (encrypted web - like the bank). You can no longer see what traffic I'm doing (well, there are ways, but they're against the whole spirit of SSL/TLS and are a gross violation of any whiff of privacy). But once this is discovered, the firewall will block the IP address. Once again, thousands of websites gone.

So the perpetrator of the alleged immoral or illegal behaviour will switch to a peer-to-peer scheme, where the port (kind of like a post box at a post office) is random, along with what seems to be a random IP address. Bit like how BitTorrent, Kazaa, Limewire and others work. Throw in some cleverness like the Tor network (an anonymising encrypted network) where you can never really discover with accuracy who is requesting traffic, and any monitoring has just been circumvented. In fact, the protocol used to resolve www.australian-hayabusa-club.com into the IP address 203.28.48.9 can be used to subvert filters and proxies. The firewall could also filter the incoming text off the website, except I'll just post the subversive material as a picture. Or a picture that has to be colour inverted, or a swirled picture that uses a de-swirling program to view.

So in the space of three paragraphs, I've just listed 8 ways to subvert certain types of filtering. If I were allowed to use a whiteboard, had a barista on hand, and the urge, I could undoubtedly brain storm hundreds if not thousands of ways to get data in and out under the eyes of the watchers without them being aware of what I'm doing. And this is exactly what those who have something to hide will be doing. Hiding illegal traffic amongst a sea of legitimate traffic. In fact, I can attest from my real experience (to the point of legal proceedings) the lengths people will go to hide what they're doing.

Ultimately the only way to stop this behaviour, as you mentioned the university was doing, is to simply block the whole Internet and instead make white-lists. White-lists in the sense of what you can look at, everything else is expressly forbidden.

My employer next year will carry somewhere more than 20 petabytes of traffic across cables under the Pacific and Indian oceans. That's 20,000,000 gigabytes. And that's ignoring domestic (i.e. inside Australia) traffic which is of a similar order of magnitude, and also ignoring the data that isn't carried directly on our Internet network. It's simply impossible to monitor that volume of data without either significantly degrading the performance of the network, or causing massive collateral damage to the usefulness of the Internet as a whole.

At which point we may as well give up on the Internet and deploy an Australia-Net, wholesome, pure and free of smut.

Except for those that managed to subvert the Australia-Net to ship around their illegal material, distributing content bought in on CDs from a trip to South East Asia. Give me a whiteboard and a cup of coffee...
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#23
evilRasp Wrote:How I wish they'd block one of the websites I'm responsible for.

Thanks for all that............ Is a little more clearUndecided

Some of the things you mentioned stick in my mind as being used in China. So that is obviously it.

As you say with collateral damage, the Chinese Gov wouldn't care about that, as long as they removed the offending information.
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#24
It'll never happen
Sounds like a front number plate type issue to me

LIVE TO RIDE AND RIDE TO LIVE

LET THOSE WHO RIDE DECIDE
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#25
Ah I see a lively intellectual debate going on here, so I 'll join in. Ok the only way the Government is going to have any luck with that is to buy all the isps and run the companies themselves. In the privacy of your own home if you wanna watch porn that's your business and as far as a I know they can't do anything about it. I think they are just wanting to stop porn getting into schools etc and this is where they should be targeting their efforts. I love Australia but gee sometimes I gotta think WTF? at some of the decisions being made. Heidis comment about dumbing down is absolutely correct. If you listen to teenagers they have no concept of grammar, punctuation and everything is spelt out using txt. You give a checkout chick or chuck the correct coin but bigger note they have no idea to just minus the amount.
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#26
Speed Demon Wrote:It'll never happen
Sounds like a front number plate type issue to me

I wouldn't bet on it.
It'll probably come down to $$$ like everything else.
The number crunchers probably worked out that the cost implimentation of front number plates was greater than the money potentially raised though fines, photos, etc after implimentation meant it wsn't worth the $$ outlay.

If the number crunchers determine that it is in the Federal Reserves best financial interest to have filters implimented - guess what... Mr Kevin (Chinese-trained) Rudd will have no problem rubber stamping the decision.

Also, I'm presuming these filters sound like they will have the ability to check a variety of information depending on what key-words are used. Therefore, what starts out as innocently as "Porn Filter" becomes "Subversion Filter".

Also, the way laws are written in parliment is actually quite cunning. After all the debate and voting by the various senates, lower and upper houses and the word becomes law, it's very difficult to change. So the powers-that-be allow amendments to law as long as it basically covers the same principle of the original law.
Thereby allowing a simple change from "Porn Filter" to "Subversion Filter"

(Correct me if I'm wrong) Most laws are written to get through the parlimentary red-tape; once there and with careful admissions the laws are then changed or configured more easily.

I know it all sounds conspiracy theory... i have been accused of watching too much TV
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#27
Speed Demon Wrote:It'll never happen
Sounds like a front number plate type issue to me

We can only hope Conroy fluffs it the same way he has fluffed the NBN. With some lucky, we'll see it swept under the carpet.

debandee Wrote:If the number crunchers determine that it is in the Federal Reserves best financial interest to have filters implimented - guess what... Mr Kevin (Chinese-trained) Rudd will have no problem rubber stamping the decision.

And guess who'll be paying for it? Us, in more ways than one.
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#28
Dan85 Wrote:Pi_freak just read that kevin "the douche bag" rudd has decided that he is going to implement compolsury isp filtering. from what i can gather there will be no more porn for us aussies! not only porn but violent website etc which means things like utube are potentially on the list as well as porn sites and the like. does anyone know more about this then my limited knowledge? if so are they really gonna stop porn to australia? if they are can we circumnavigate the filters somehow?

this is yet another way this f*&^ing government seems to purposfully f*** our nice country formally based on a concept of freedom. all so little kids dont see porn. well f*** i say parents should be monitoring there children on the internet and also in a lot of other ways. may aswell move to bloody communist china! i say its f*&^ing horse shit!

well if your on broadband -- upgrade your connection to a 2Mbit connection with 80 gig download a month ... and stock up !!! or as i like to refer to it as " Backing up the internet"


Boc
Hayabusa , If your not on one , your behind one .....
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#29
Nice write-up evilRasp.

The older I get, the less I like the world I live in. What happened to make everyone so freakin stupid?
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#30
And it appears Conroy has shown his colours...

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2008/10/2...e=fullpage
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-rep...m?t=967413&p=45#r883
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-rep...m?t=967413&p=46#r917

Having known Mark Newton professionally for many years, I hold his assessment of technical issues in high regard.
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