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24-10-2014, 10:10pm
(This post was last modified: 24-10-2014, 10:11pm by Zoro.)
I'm chasing some HR advice for an issue we're currently having at work and I'm hoping that someone here is up to speed with workplace law etc.
It goes like this,
I originally signed a contract that states I can earn time off in lieu (TOIL) for every hour worked above 40hrs. The Norwegian company I signed this contract with was bought out by an American company. We signed a letter stating that we were aware that the new company was now in charge and that nothing would change.
Seems they are now not letting us accumulate TOIL but instead paying us the difference. This happened without any consultation between employer and employee. It was bought in on the 1st July and only now have they given us a piece of paper to sign to say that we understand what's going on and agree with it.
Can this be done legally?
My biggest issue is the way this has been rolled out as opposed to the change in conditions, for me personally.
This is the only company I've worked for that can just change your pay/ conditions without any prior warning or consultation.
Currently I'm refusing to sign anything as I feel that its wrong for them to do this without telling us.
The change of conditions is not really a problem for me its more the fact that they want me to sign this agreement/ proposal after the change has already been implemented. Considering we signed a letter stating that nothing would change 12 months ago.
Seems pointless signing this considering the last one was useless.
Anyway, I'm copping some heat because I've not signed it yet, just wondering what my rights are?
It doesn't feel right, usually means it isn't.....
Or should I just harden up princess??
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I reckon that it's wrong that they have changed the conditions after you signed a document which stated that there wouldn't be any changes. It's a hard one though because you could put yourself out on a limb and become pretty unpopular if you try and nail them? If the situation is tolerable and the changes aren't that significant then I would write them a polite and carefully worded email and spell it out as to why you're pissed off. Writing is always better as you know, because there's no chance of being misunderstood or mis quoted from a conversation. It's a real piss off mate, but I think there's no harm done in stating your case.
Reckon I'm about to go through a similar thing here, with Norwegians too!
Strange times at the moment?
Hope you can get some sort of satisfaction, and move ahead.
Vbrgds
Rob
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In what industry do you work mate?
Are you under an EBA?
Are you part of any union?
Alias Stu
Growing old happens.
Growing up is a choice!
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25-10-2014, 06:24am
(This post was last modified: 25-10-2014, 06:27am by Kendo.)
I understand your point here Zoro. I would suggest though, if you are not opposed to the extra pay instead of TOIL, then sometimes it will save you alot of grief to just accept the new condition.
I love to fight on principal but it is very hard these days.
Large companies spend alot on their HR departments and are very, very good at keeping loopholes and outs up their sleeves until they really need to play them. It is very hard to beat them at their own game.
Sometimes all you achieve is to be flagged as a score to settle a little way down the track.
Just look carefully before you leap and good luck with what you decide mate.
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25-10-2014, 07:33am
(This post was last modified: 25-10-2014, 07:42am by Zoro.)
I told them they're a bunch of C#nts yesterday and that's where I left it.
Jumped in their car and drove home.
Just find it very hard that this can be done, in this day and age, legally anyway.
What's the point of signing anything if this can happen without any notice or consultation?
This is where I'm currently at, why do I need to sign this new piece of crap if the other 3 I've signed have got me to this point?
The only reason the new policy doesn't affect me is because I rarely work away and above the 40hr threshold anymore. It only affects the guys that go away now.
These are the guys that work under my instruction, I won't get much performance out of them after this.
No unions here Shorty and it's offshore O&G engineering.
Rob, I have no intentions of nailing them or anything untoward. What I want is for them to realise that what they are doing or at least trying to do is wrong. I'm not saying I wouldn't accept a financial sweetener to get me to sign off. As mentioned though it seems pointless signing anything if they can change our contractual conditions on a whim.
Monday will be interesting...or Tuesday if I show up....maybe Wednesday see what happens.. Might have just found myself an extra long weekend..
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Hey zoro is it only the TOIL that has changed? Is your 40hrs a week conditions still stayed the same? Some times companies can't afford to give people the time off (toil) so they would rather pay people. Positive spin is that they are busy and there's plenty of work.
If the 40 hours has stayed the same then they haven't breached any eba/union whatever agreements. Overtime can be changed or altered.
I only ride as fast as my angel can fly.(A Blue Angel)
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Yeah only the TOIL and the way it is accrued has changed.
This might sound strange but we're supposed to be 4% better off on the new deal than the old one but for a select few of us the time off is better than the 4% gain.
We now pay more in tax and spend less time with our families as opposed the way the system was.
It's a much better deal for the single guys.
Also we have now lost the option to cash the TOIL in at the end of the year. Some of us could walk away with $20k in the hand at Xmas time and depending on how much was in there you could have a week or two off to spend said $20k.
My biggest gripe is the way in which this was soo poorly handled more than the change of conditions, makes you think what's next??
I'm pretty sure under the IR laws we have they cannot force my hand to sign anything but I could be wrong. Hoping someone here knows the ins and outs of HR
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It might pay to get in contact with these people for some tips at least.
http://www.amou.com.au/news/offshore-oil...tions.aspx
Alias Stu
Growing old happens.
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The original contract you have signed with this Nowegian company is legaly binding even if the company was later aquired by another one. You have a confirmation letter from the new owners that confirms it. The new deal they propose, changes the conditions of the original Contract and you can choose not to accept it, and they can not force you to do so. I went through similar situation where few engineers myself included were moved to a different manufacturing site within the same company. Some conditiond there were different to the one we worked before and we were assured that our original agrement was still in force though we didnt get anything in writing. Some time later two of the transferees were made redundant and the HR f%ckers tried to rip them off on the redundancy payments citing the current site conditions. They went to court and easily won. After that the HR tried to unify all the contracts and rolled out new agreement with some changes of a conditions. It meant a significant financial loses in comparison with old contracts. The difficulty was that the law was slightly different for professionals on salaries over 90K. Most people signed out of fear as there are pussies everywhere. Few of us refused and were subjectewd to goroup talks, individual talks, then threats etc but we held firm. After a while they have given up but the relationship with our HR deparmtment was frosty for months. When the big wave of redundancies come in (automotive industry) we got all our money while those who signed were f&*cked over. That is just life. You have to stand up for your rights because the only ones you got, are the ones you defend. The emplyment laws are different in each state and the federal laws are different again. Foreign companies have to operate under federal legislation and where it comes to contract, the rules are very clear. You are right and do not give up. I would suggest seek an advice of an industrial relations lawyer. There is no need to abuse your employer and burn the bridges. Be civil with them but do not let them bully you into anything. Someone said that big HR departments are oh so right and tight. Bulshit. They often as incompetent as any other departments and what they are trying to do now just proves it.
"It is not a shame to not know, the shame is to not know and not to ask"
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I like what I hear Shifu.
Most of the newer guys have signed themselves over already, these are same bunch that had a sook when everything changed over without being told what's happening.
Originally we were all on the same side of the fence however, one by one they started signing it. I suspect through fear of losing their jobs no doubt.
They changed the way we report our time which changes how the TOIL was measured, all done without telling us on the 1st July.
One of my guys was on the Stena Clyde and rang the boss and wanted to know what's going on and pretty much exploded. Couldn't do much over the phone though. He wrote a please explain letter to HR. They called my boss and told him that they weren't ready for this. HR needed time to write this "Proposal" letter that we were given this week.
In summary, the changes were made prior to any official rollout, the proposal letter was sent 3 months after the change was implemented.
If I conducted my jobs in this fashion I would have been sacked by now. Heads should roll as far as I'm concerned.
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