Electrical Gremlins?? any ideas

[rocket rod 7777]

Ok,heres my theory on it.When the motor was hot also meaning the battery would be hot,you could have a warping battery plate effectively causing an internal short inside the battery(it only has to be one cell)and then when the battery cooled down(no charge going into it)the plate would straighten and hence you would have 12.5v again sounds good to me! <i></i>

[rev 01]

When I was a wooly arsed apprentice many decades ago, the only battery test worth doing was the Flat Rate Discharge test. This checks battery function under maximum load. Nowadays a mechanic might bin a sus battery & bill you for it to save time

I'm not a sparky but my basic understanding of electrics is that battery power is more to do with AMPERAGE rather than voltage

I tend to agree with Rocket's theory on warped plates as this type of fault can elude good mechanics as well as bad & as mentioned earlier, only battery substitution will sort this problem out <i></i>

[Beestroyer]

Quote : "If you were riding, then pulled over for 20 minutes, and it failed soon after (weak or completely flat), but then 20 minutes later, it was working again fine, it is not your battery. Think about it. Do you think a battery can recharge itself while you go and have a coffee ?? So it has to be something else within your bikes electrical system."


Peter... Electricity does not conduct as well in elevated temperatures. When a battery is getting old it is common that it will not provide power when hot, but will when its cool.
This is why you have a fan on your computer chip... to keep it cool so it runs efficiently. If you have heard of water cooling systems for computers so they can overclock them, well thats to keep it cool (obviously) because computers start to crash when they get hot.
Heard of putting your torch battery in the freezer to give it some extra life... same reason.
Maybe everyones next TAFE course should be basic electronics.

And the warped plate theory... a posibility but i would imagine that to warp the lead plate, the acid would be boiling away.

Rev... P=IV so the amperage (I) depends on how much power (watts) the bike is using (ie not much until you start cranking). As Voltage decreases the current increases to supply the same power and current is what causes heat.

Of course i could be full of shit. <i></i>

[peter altas]

I do understand electronics, and we are getting back to the issue of a lack of information. Engine hot or warm??? On a 23 deg day with a warm engine (from original posting) the battery shouldn't be overheated.

Along with this, batteries are usually only guaranteed for two years. A life beyonf this is considered good value, so don't think that a new battery in a bike/car will last forever.


Peter Altas
BUSA-1<i></i>

[peter altas]

Sorry, for all you quotable quoters out there, "the bike was hot, but nothing unusual for a 23 deg day). I suppose it depends on your interpretation of this.

Even in +40 deg summer last year, the bike (and I'm assuming the battery) didn't get "hot". It was at operating temp. Even when sitting at lights for excessive periods, the cooling system was able to keep up. Battery's operating ranges are usually into the 50-60+ deg mark (yes? could be wrong, but i've seen it somewhere).

Your battery should have sufficient charge, whether hot or cold, to start the bike. And we're back to checking your battery condition and charging system for faults.

Cooling fans on computers is a different issue. Not primarily to increase conductivity, but to prevent the delicate silicone processors from cooking. They too have their optimal operating range. And conductivity is also reduced when too cold. I'm sure we all know the basics behind "how" metal conducts.

Fair enough, it may have gone and come back, so are you getting your battery and bike checked? or assuming it's all okay and waiting for the next incidence?


Peter Altas
BUSA-1<i></i>

[Beestroyer]

Conductivity isnt reduced when its too cold. Resistance lowers with a lowering temperature. Electiricity flows best at 0 degrees Kelvin.... super conductor theory. The only problem there is that the acid in the battery will freeze.

I know you said it wasnt "hot" but if the battery is in the midst of dying then the difference between 20 and 40 degrees can prevent cranking. <i></i>

[rocket rod 7777]

The reason i said the battery was hot was not from the ambient temperture but because it had been charging for 20 min(ride time)and this charging could warm the suspect plate up enough to cause a plate to warp which intern causes a short inside a cell.When you stop the bike and the charge into the battery, the plate could return to normal,hence you have full voltage again.It is true that it is the amperage that does the work.Ive had batteries that show 12.5v on the multi meter but have no cranking power. <i></i>

[rocket rod 7777]

The other thing to do is to check the specific gravity of the battery acid with a hydrometer and this will tell you if you have a crook cell,but as most bikes have sealed units these days its a bit hard to do! <i></i>

[peter altas]

I'm with the previous post, adjust your chain.

(Until my battery starts to play up)
Peter Altas
BUSA-1<i></i>

[rocket rod 7777]

So whats wrong Peter,is the electrical guru stumped with logic????? <i></i>

[Stormbringer 2003]

<i>>getting back to the issue of a lack of information</i>

How about sticking to the facts then?

<i>>batteries are usually only guaranteed for two years</i>

In the two instances we're talking about, one bike was about a year old, the other only six months. I'm assuming that Suzuki see fit to put a new battery in a new bike, but I wouldn't be surprised...



<i></i>

[demeester]

Hey bee, conductivity may be better when it is not warm, and I have never heard of putting batteries in freezers to get more life but in contrast, when photographing in sub-zero conditions, an extension so you can keep your camera batteries in your pocket gets a lot more power out of them. In fact, when camping in sub-zero conditions, if planning to do early morning photography, I keep my batteries in my sleeping bag overnight to avoid angst. And to get a final couple of shots out of dying batteries, remove them from the camera and hold them in your hot little hands...

Disclaimer: I am not an expert but give this example from my real life experience....

p.s. Had the starting problem again - new battery for me. No, I am not going to bring the battery inside at night and keep it warm under the doona... <i></i>

[gazza414]

Lets stick to the technical issue here regarding batteries and conducting power from them.

The point about lowering temperatures is beneficial for conducting electricity with most materials as pointed out . As absolute zero is approached (we are now talking about minus 272'C ) or zero degress Kelvin not only is there no resistance to electron flow but life itself ceases to exist !!!!! This has never been achieved in a lab although if you pump ( vaccum pump ) on liquid helium you'll get close.

As far as batteries being warmed to make them "work" this is also true but now the issue is generating power from a chemical cell ( lead /acid ) and chemical reactions such as this are more aggressive at higher temps within limits.

So just in summary if we are looking at generating power from a wet cell battery -higher temps are beneficial within limits. If we are looking at conducting electrical power thru conductors such as copper or ferrous materials then lower temps are benefical.

Now with my 2002 Busa it wasn't a battery condition issue . It was clearly a high resistance in the circuit between battery terminals, relay and starter motor. <i></i>

[GDYUP]

Or just wait till the weather warms up. Get the club discount when all the hibernators leave their caves and try to start their bikes. Action are gunna make a killin'.
Cheers, Phil. Riding not hibernating. <i></i>

[Volvi]

Actually priced them at Action for $163 <i></i>