Police Radars

[GRUNTMAX]

Hi All. Keep in mind that fining someone BEFORE they have been PROVEN GUILTY of a real offence is an assumption of guilt, and in violation of the principle of a person is presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

A fine is in effect both a financial debt and a punishment. Naturally a reasonable person would want to know where, when, where, why and how the alleged debt was created, and why are they being punished before they are proven guilty of an offence against the life, liberty or property of another natural person, or they have been proven guilty of dishonouring a contract? They would also demand to know why they are being denied their right of "due process" of law and natural justice?

At law under section 71 of the Australian Constitution only a court of competent jurisdiction may issue a fine after a natural person has been convicted of an offence. Also under section 76 and 78 of the "Evidence Act 1958 (Vic.)" the fine must be accompanied by a valid court order bearing a proper public seal AND accompanied by a supporting affidavit.

Therefore no government department, council or police has a constitutional power to impose fines. They can only make an accusation and allegation which they must prove in court! If the Sheriff's office attempts to demand payment for a fine without a valid court order containing a proper public seal, supporting affidavit and warrant then they are engaging in illegal fraud, extortion and blackmail.

Additionally the Sheriff's Office of Victoria is a registered corporation with an ABN/ACN. That makes it a corporate entity which is not recognized by the Commonwealth Constitution. Therefore, demand they prove their authority or jurisdiction over you and a valid contract between them and you in which you agreed to pay the alleged unproven debt.

Further note that any alleged warrant based upon the "Infringements Courts Act 2006" must comply with section 71 of the Commonwealth Constitution, otherwise section 109 of the Commonwealth Constitution renders the Infringements Courts Act 2006 invalid and without any legal effect on a sovereign-subject. Also the alleged "Infringements Courts Act 2006" must comply with the Commonwealth Constitution pursuant to section 15A of the Acts Interpretation Act 1901 (Commonwealth) which is does not do so presently. Section 15A states: "Every Act shall be read and construed subject to the Constitution, and so as not to exceed the legislative power of the Commonwealth..."

Further, every natural person has the right of due process and a fair trial pursuant to section 51-24 of the Australian Constitution which states: “No man can be legally bound by a judgment given behind his back and without his having had an opportunity of being heard.” This right is also stated in section 8 (12) of the “Imperial Acts Application Act 1980” as: "that all grants and promises of fines and forefitures of particular persons before conviction, are illegal and void." This is a core principal of natural justice.

I hope this information helps anyone with fines.

[Heidi1]

Lovely piece of cut and paste there Grunt, good work.

[ROD]

One simple rule is dont admit to speeding they have you then .
I took of at the lights in Brisbane and went past a car i was doing 100 in a 80 the car had to be that unmarked camry .
Officer said do you relise what speed you was doing i said yes did not go over 80 after 5 min of friendly chat he had to let me go as he had no proof of my speed even with 3 other oficers in the car .

[FalcoPerigri]

Hi All. Keep in mind that fining someone BEFORE they have been PROVEN GUILTY of a real offence is an assumption of guilt, and in violation of the principle of a person is presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

A fine is in effect both a financial debt and a punishment. Naturally a reasonable person would want to know where, when, where, why and how the alleged debt was created, and why are they being punished before they are proven guilty of an offence against the life, liberty or property of another natural person, or they have been proven guilty of dishonouring a contract? They would also demand to know why they are being denied their right of "due process" of law and natural justice?

At law under section 71 of the Australian Constitution only a court of competent jurisdiction may issue a fine after a natural person has been convicted of an offence. Also under section 76 and 78 of the "Evidence Act 1958 (Vic.)" the fine must be accompanied by a valid court order bearing a proper public seal AND accompanied by a supporting affidavit.

Therefore no government department, council or police has a constitutional power to impose fines. They can only make an accusation and allegation which they must prove in court! If the Sheriff's office attempts to demand payment for a fine without a valid court order containing a proper public seal, supporting affidavit and warrant then they are engaging in illegal fraud, extortion and blackmail.

Additionally the Sheriff's Office of Victoria is a registered corporation with an ABN/ACN. That makes it a corporate entity which is not recognized by the Commonwealth Constitution. Therefore, demand they prove their authority or jurisdiction over you and a valid contract between them and you in which you agreed to pay the alleged unproven debt.

Further note that any alleged warrant based upon the "Infringements Courts Act 2006" must comply with section 71 of the Commonwealth Constitution, otherwise section 109 of the Commonwealth Constitution renders the Infringements Courts Act 2006 invalid and without any legal effect on a sovereign-subject. Also the alleged "Infringements Courts Act 2006" must comply with the Commonwealth Constitution pursuant to section 15A of the Acts Interpretation Act 1901 (Commonwealth) which is does not do so presently. Section 15A states: "Every Act shall be read and construed subject to the Constitution, and so as not to exceed the legislative power of the Commonwealth..."

Further, every natural person has the right of due process and a fair trial pursuant to section 51-24 of the Australian Constitution which states: “No man can be legally bound by a judgment given behind his back and without his having had an opportunity of being heard.” This right is also stated in section 8 (12) of the “Imperial Acts Application Act 1980” as: "that all grants and promises of fines and forefitures of particular persons before conviction, are illegal and void." This is a core principal of natural justice.

I hope this information helps anyone with fines.

Thank you, I need to explore and understand this better. Does this all mean that imposing a fine prior to a court order accompanied by a judgement of the court is improper? The presumption of guilt and therefore imposing the fine, BEFORE there is a judgement of the court is a presumption of guilt and therefore unconstitutional and illegal?
I can certainly understand and agree with that!
FP

[Ozboc]

seeing that i have been on the end of more fines than i care to admitt to . There is 1 thing you can do when you get pulled over is you can ask the officer to supply the date of when the LIDAR or unit they used to check your speed with was last calibrated there must be a sticker , but i warn you now most cops really get the shits when you ask for this info , i have had some very abusive cops unleash on me for asking lol . i will find the info and post it but all speed units are supposed to be calibrated at certian intervals and i have been done by a few that were out of date and way off calibration,

1) ryde road . i was told i was doing 85 in a 70 zone . i did some probeing and i found the lidar had not been checked in 7 mths i appealed it the courts ordered the unit checked and it was out of calibration by at least 11 km's so my fine was dismissed dude to the fact that the unit was wrong ,

+1

They must be able to provide a CURRENT calibration certificate for the radar unit- but as said - they dont like when you ask for this - and be prepared to WAIT it out - as it could be 1 hour before you get a copy of it - but this also pulls him away from booking people also for 1 hour and if its a small offence -- ie less than 15 over -- he may just give you a warning and go on his way. If they start going off at you and your vehicle is in perfect order - then just record it on your mobile phone. These people are public officers and not your parents and such behaviours is inexcusable

ALSO ? is there a time stamp on radar detections ? i have spoken to cops that have kept Over speed limit readings and used to book motorists - ( dodgey cops )

Boc

[highwaybruiser]

Simple solution: DON'T SPEED!! If you do, don't bitch about getting busted. It's a numbers game, like most things in life. If you speed constantly, you're bound to get caught eventually. Let's say you speed every time you drive/ride. How often do you get caught? Once every couple of years. Think about all the times you didn't get busted weighed against the times you did. It's like the gambler telling you of their $1000 win on a horse race last week, but not telling you about the $25,000 they've bet at the TAB over the last 6yrs to win it.

Everyone has the right to have the matter heard in court. Getting issued with the fine is akin to being charged, but as it's a simple traffic offence the process has been simplified to reduce the clutter of the court system. Can you imagine what it would be like if instead of plod issuing the fine and leaving you with the decision to admit guilt and pay the fine & lose the points, they arrested and detained you as a criminal, formally charged you, fingerprinted you, locked you in a cell until your day in court? Yeah, f*** that!

Most times you get done for speeding, it's because you were speeding, and most of us know we were, so we pay the fine and move on with our lives. If you're adamant that you weren't speeding you simply flip the fine over, fill out the election to have the matter heard in court option on the back and send it in. I did this once after getting done by the speed camera at Bonnyrigg. About 4 months later, I got a letter telling me they'd dropped the matter. Go figure!

And no I don't believe for one second that speed kills. It's the g-forces of rapid deceleration tearing your aorta from your heart after a sudden stop that kills.

[ROD]

Simple solution: DON'T SPEED!! If you do, don't bitch about getting busted. It's a numbers game, like most things in life. If you speed constantly, you're bound to get caught eventually. Let's say you speed every time you drive/ride. How often do you get caught? Once every couple of years. Think about all the times you didn't get busted weighed against the times you did. It's like the gambler telling you of their $1000 win on a horse race last week, but not telling you about the $25,000 they've bet at the TAB over the last 6yrs to win it.

Thats what we cant understand no one on this site speeds its in the sign up agreament

[highwaybruiser]

*previous post edited- looks like you got in there while I was typing, Rod. I'll admit to speeding, now and then. Got done last year in the wife's cage. Running late for work, didn't think they'd be out in the pissing down rain. 126 in the 100 zone under the old system, 15-30 over. I was doing it, I got caught, I paid up and I don't bitch about it, coz I had a clean run for 13yrs, including 5yrs as a courier in Sydney. Have never been booked on the bike [*touch wood*].

[ROD]

I would not say that i stick to the limit 100% but had full points for over 10 years now just lucky i think touch wood

[Dave]

Speed and you will eventually get caught, cop it on the chin and move on.
All this bitching about police radars will not make them go away. They are here to stay.
Very shortly a new system will be rolled out in Australia, time over distance cameras. As you pass a set point a camera mounted discretely on an existing utilities pole will take a picture of your number plate, as you pass the other camera your speed is calculated and if you were speeding, guess what, an infringement notice is on the way. These cameras also work across multiply lanes. They have proved to be terrific revenue raiser in the Middle East.
Dave

[Diablo]

Some good info there Dave, however, the technology has been in use her in Aus for many years. They are called Safety Cams, and are used to track heavy vehicles and trip times. Every heavy vehicle that passes the camera has a picture taken of their number plate for the purpose you mentioned. Late at night, when there is light traffic, they take a pic of Every vehicle regardless of size. The nearest one to the Gold Coast is at Chindera, just over the NSW border.

As for the Distance Between Cars you mentioned, that is a feature of the newest model of Unltralyte2020 handheld Lidar, specifically the UX series. It has the ability, via some extremely clever software, to calculate the distance between two vehicles as they travel along a road. No widely in use yet as, I think, the legislation is still trying to catch up.

Gruntmax, you don't honestly believe all that drivel do you? If so, I have the bargain of a lifetime for you, a mate is selling this bridge in Sydney.........

[Dave]

Some good info there Dave, however, the technology has been in use her in Aus for many years. They are called Safety Cams, and are used to track heavy vehicles and trip times. Every heavy vehicle that passes the camera has a picture taken of their number plate for the purpose you mentioned. Late at night, when there is light traffic, they take a pic of Every vehicle regardless of size. The nearest one to the Gold Coast is at Chindera, just over the NSW border.

As for the Distance Between Cars you mentioned, that is a feature of the newest model of Unltralyte2020 handheld Lidar, specifically the UX series. It has the ability, via some extremely clever software, to calculate the distance between two vehicles as they travel along a road. No widely in use yet as, I think, the legislation is still trying to catch up.

Gruntmax, you don't honestly believe all that drivel do you? If so, I have the bargain of a lifetime for you, a mate is selling this bridge in Sydney.........

Diablo,
Safety cams are very visible as you need to pass directly under a bridge structure mounted with them, where as these cameras are housed in cylinder of appox 4" diameter x 2' long and are located off to the side of the road, say in the centre medium strip/divider section mounted high on existing utility poles, first glance they look like a neon sign light. Unlike other static fixed speed cameras and portable multinova speed camera that are most of the time visible, these suckers are virtually impossible to spot if you are speeding. Both the Victorian and NSW governments will reap millions more in the name of road safety.

Dave

[Diablo]

First I have heard of them. Do you know the brand or any specs? Aside from the Middle East, do yoou know of any other juresdictions that are using them?

[heavensdoor]

My Hayabusa is up for sale definately getting a moped.
My past life has been very wasteful in carbon and now believe it is dangerous and not responsible to go faster than walking pase. I am reassured in our system of goverment control for showing me the errors in my ways.

Speed and you will eventually get caught, cop it on the chin and move on.
All this bitching about police radars will not make them go away. They are here to stay.
Very shortly a new system will be rolled out in Australia, time over distance cameras. As you pass a set point a camera mounted discretely on an existing utilities pole will take a picture of your number plate, as you pass the other camera your speed is calculated and if you were speeding, guess what, an infringement notice is on the way. These cameras also work across multiply lanes. They have proved to be terrific revenue raiser in the Middle East.
Dave

[FalcoPerigri]

Sorry but I can't see anyone with any knowledge about what I actually asked: which is;
what are the rules governing the use of radars by POLICE.
Is there a set of RULES OR NOT?
Do POLICE stick to these rules or NOT?

We want to know and also we want "THEM" to know that we know what they should know and abide by.
My guess is that they do not abide by the rules all the time and will use/bend whatever is necessary in order to be SEEN that they are catching law-breakers.
To my knowledge, NO ONE who wishes to SPEED even thinks about Radars when they want to speed. That is why Busas, Ferraris, Bentleys and Porsches and HSV and HPV's get sold/bought everyday...( including anything that can exceed 100kph, 110kph, 60kph etc., etc) Frankly they would achieve a LOT more if they put the money into making roads SAFER, but then, that would be spending money and not raking it in with speed cameras.

FPerigri