Charge Cooling

[horndog]

I thought the Turbo arena could do with a new thread and I am keen to learn more about charge cooling so I am gonna throw it out to the gurus to answer a few Q's. I will put in the details that I have found so far and ask for comments.

What boost level should I start to consider charge cooling? 10+PSI
Opinions on intercool vs water injection including water/methanol injection?

Water injection -
What pump output PSI do I need for a good spray? 100+
What size spray nozzle and is it dependant on boost?
Can I control the spray with just a hobbs switch? yes but higher boost applications may require a smarter controller
Where do I place the spray nozzle?
How much will a injection kit cost me? $450+

Intercooler -
How much? $1500+
are they more suitable for street than water spray?

[A^K^T]

I was wondering what was done for inter cooling on the Bussa turbo installs , there wouldn't be a lot of room for an air to air inter cooler would there ?
I have only seen one that was made for a BMW setup that had a curved core , similar style to the rad on the Bussa.

[BLACKZOOK]

Mine runs an Aquamist water injection setup. Pressure/actuation is boost dependant and is controlled by the Motec with a 3D map.

She initially ran a 50/50 distilled water/methanol mix but 2 years ago I switched to pure methanol. The bike runs 16psi on pump fuel all the time and has clocked up 7000klm without problem with this boost and setup.

Sorry dont remember the nozzle size and pressure Maj initially set it up and final mapping was done by Croyden Racing in Sydney. Maj may remember nozzle size and pressure.

Good luck mate.

[Maj]

Aquamist size 4 i think Bruce,

Frontmount Air to air gets a bit tight for space if your lowering the bike.
I have my streetbike setup with an undertank air/air, uses the ramair directed through the core for cooling, i know Richard at RCC doesn't think much of them and the efficancy will be less than a frontmount but its working fine for me, probably as i'm rural, city traffic may be another story, found temp rapidly drops post cooler from 60kms


Other intercoolers i use are water/air , here's one part done on my 750, water tanks still to fit.

[horndog]

Nice work as ususal Greg, is there a minimum size core you would use for a water to air? Is there a risk of restricting air flow too much with a wrong size core?

[Maj]

Way less restriction than a air/air, think of a radiator, water thru the small holes air thru the big,water intercooler is the same not much more than a slab of radiator thicker than usual.

[AntsBuza]

How about cryogenic cooling.
Probably not for on the street but for dragracing would be o.k.

I havn't seen any but have read about a few that S&R do.

[aquajett]

hope this is helpfull I run a aquamist system 1s which is activated by a manifold pressure switch which is set at 8 psi i am using the smallest jet at the moment which is 0.5mm and with that jet the pressure is 130 psi the kit allso comes with a 0.6mm and 0.7mm jets i mainly choose water for the room factor and didnt want any air flow restrictions through a intercooler which was not big enough mine all so is only used on the street and runs about 15psi and as blackzook said has worked well so far i think off hand i paid about $700-800 for the kit which is the basic kit and then they step up to something like blackzook is running with the 3d mapping i have my jet in the elbow just before it goes through the frame so its got a bit off time to cool before the plenum you can see the position in members photos on page two my turbo busa streetbike enlarge photo for a good look
cheers aquajett

[horndog]

Thanks Ant, I like the idea of cryo cooling but getting my hands on dry ice would be difficult. I think water injection or water/air cooling is easier to maintain on race day.

Aquajett -Nice set up! looks very tidy. Wish mine looke that organised under the tank!

I am still undecided as to the way forward. I am going to look into water/air some more and do a bit of a price comparison. The extra room required for water/air maybe its downfall for me though. I will also look into the potential for fitting a water/air into the nose cone or somewhere close.

Does anyone know of any solid comparison data for water/air vs water injection?

[horndog]

Just found this website
http://www.frozenboost.com
Some good looking bits here and the pricing doesnt look too bad either.

[Maj]

Not much will suit your application & pumps are not designed to be in hot water .
1/2 of one of those intercooler cores is whats on the 750,

I think Antz was meaning CO2 cryo not dry ice /metho, though either working properly would be about the best you could get for cooling the inlet charge, capable of well below ambient.

[horndog]

Not much will suit your application & pumps are not designed to be in hot water .
1/2 of one of those intercooler cores is whats on the 750,

I think Antz was meaning CO2 cryo not dry ice /metho, though either working properly would be about the best you could get for cooling the inlet charge, capable of well below ambient.

I looked up cryo cooling an dfound the CRYO2 systems. The bulb set up looks very interesting and compact.

I wonder how long an Ozito cylinder would last with that set up.

[AntsBuza]

Iv'e had a go at a small set up.
Didn't work I used the C02 with the reg.

Going to have another go.
You have to run the bottle upside down and no reg.
Looking at doing a bulb inside the up pipe.
Controled by a soleniod wired into the second stage of boost.
Exit runs into the dump pipe.

Going to do some bench testing first.

[Legend]

Those that tried Cryo went back to water injection.....something about the price of pistons I think...not sure thou!

If you run water injection in the up pipe, go to the trouble of having it point the spray pattern back towards the turbo for better atomisation.

Leonard.

[horndog]

Those that tried Cryo went back to water injection.....something about the price of pistons I think...not sure thou!

If you run water injection in the up pipe, go to the trouble of having it point the spray pattern back towards the turbo for better atomisation.

Leonard.

OH! Doesnt sound good, I would be keen to see some data logs of the bulb system in use. I have an idea for a variation which I think would work better than the bulb but like Ants says, You would want to keep the CO2 in liquid form until it hits the area for cooling. Exactly the same concept as a car airconditioner. Could probably use a nitrous fogger nozzle or carby jet as the transition point for turning the liquid to gas.